WHITEBUNNY

[SpamDaddy!]

Just curious.

[Bonaparte]

It probably depends on the circumstance of when you were shot in the water.  I am able to shoot people through explosions, when I cannot see them.  It just requires a good photo-graphic memory, spatial aptitude, and timing.  Similarly, if a sniper sees you jump into the water at a particular location in the tunnel (lets say the center), he or she can time you all the way to the end of the tunnel... assuming you kept the same location and speed.

Idk if Whitebunny is cheating, and I usually hold back from throwing a conclusive accusation on other snipers, because I feel as though I might be defaming their character without giving them a fair trial.  But I think if a player really is cheating, it will probably come out in time.

[p0izon]

There are a lot of terrible players with great aim as snipers. I've come to accept it and move along.

[Bonaparte]

Sniping definitely involves more than just aiming, and even the aiming is far more complicated and difficult than it appears...even to the point where the science of it is probably similar to the science of hitting a baseball, especially on a server full of bhoppers.  Sniping in general can be compared to boxing: faking out your opponent with intricate movements and trying to penetrate their own defensive movements to get a shot on them (particularly applying to sniper fights). There are also psychological elements: mind games, and a battle of wills.  And there are little details that can help a sniper perfect his or her craft.  It can be hard to notice all this by playing in a pub map though.

[Guts]

Hold down mouse1 + release mouse1 = sniper.  Lets not make it seem more complex than that.

P.S. Everyone in tfc has to aim, thats the fucking game bro.

[Bonaparte]

At the basic level, sniper is just hold mouse and release mouse.  I recommend anybody reading this to check out the TF2 videos Auto Aim has released.  You will see what sniping looks like at some of the highest levels of playing.  Idk if their old TFC demos can be found, though.  I think maybe Bloodsire has some online.  The point is, the "higher" levels of sniping is a difficult thing to achieve.

[Bonaparte]

http://youtu.be/mK6sJOV0JaY

[Guts]

^

[Venomous Fangs]

Try sniping with a ping of 250 like I got. That involves predicting where the target is going to be and firing there, as firing directly at the target on the screen always results in a miss, barring them standing still.

Snipe long enough and there will be some pretty fluky shots, I recall head shotting someone who rocket jumped up to me in 2fort recently. Had no idea they were doing that, firing at another target, next thing I know a rocket soldier is going splat right before me.

The give away for a sniper aim botting would be they never miss, no matter how good one is if the target jinks away just as your firing you will miss, which invariably happens once in a while.

[Bonaparte]

Try sniping with a ping of 250 like I got. That involves predicting where the target is going to be and firing there, as firing directly at the target on the screen always results in a miss, barring them standing still.

A high ping will affect your shot.  But, saying that it 'always' results in a miss is a bit of an exaggeration.  Last night, actually, I was sniping with a few EVIL members and my ping was fluctuating between the 150 and 300 range.  I was still was making some pretty difficult shots without having to predict movement.

[Venomous Fangs]

Well perhaps we have to agree to disagree Sun-Tsu.

If the target is moving I need to fire where they will be to effect a hit, at least that's what I see on this screen.

The only exception to this rule is if they are running directly in line towards or away from me, even then not predicting location on head shots can go over the top if they are heading my way and I am elevated.

[SpamDaddy!]

I had a situation where Dragonite sniped me in the water on 2fort which made me wonder if he was cheating then I specced him and I could see he was tracking and knew when I hit the water I would slow and even tho he couldn't see me he still killed me. My kill just happened to result in a headshot. When I specced him he did this multiple times and unless you turn and swim out of line he makes the kill but rarely a headshot. That showed me was just an amazing sniper.

Whitebunny did not see me hit the water. he was on top of enemy tower in Well. I swam all the way out of my base to their base using the water tunnels and center tunnel and was sniped with a normal kill shot. I thot WTH..lucky shot he predicted where I was when I got air - my mistake. I immediately repeated the maneuver and this time I decided to just swim for it and recover before I exited the enemy tunnel at their silo. I was bumping the bottom of the water tunnel and Boom! Headshot. At that point I just surrendered. If he is THAT good then I admit I will rage quit cuz I'm not getting better and I will apologize to him. But I have never seen anything like it. yet his sniping numbers aren't good. Therefore I remain confused.

[p0izon]

Lol, Sun you live 4 hours away from the servers. I don't think your latency compares to Venomous'.

[Bonaparte]

Lol, Sun you live 4 hours away from the servers. I don't think your latency compares to Venomous'.

in the example I was giving, I was not on the evil servers and I was using my brother's internet, which doesn't work as well as mine at home.  My ping was similar to what Venom is talking about.  High ping does affect your playing, I get that.  The first 3 or 4 years of TFC saw me on a 56k.  But, in the long run you adapt and can still play effectively.  And I'm not trying to insinuate anything negative about Venom's or anybody else's skills.  I try to see this game as being about your own person accomplishments and overcoming your own challenges.  It should be more about continuous improvement than "I'm better than this or that person."

[Bonaparte]

I do want to be fair about Spam's concern.  I have had suspicions that Whitebunny is using "something" extra to help him out.  There was even one situation about a month ago.  I was sniping on bottom battlements of 2fort and White walks up to me, so I sort of move backwards and to the right.  But right when he shot me, if you made a line from me to him, and from him to where his gun was pointing, it would form roughly somewhere between a 30 and 40 degree angle (just an estimate from my memory, which could be a little off since it happened fast).  Perhaps it was just a lag thing.  This only happened once, too.  Otherwise, he will miss shots just like anybody else.  Whitebunny is a friend of mine and I'm not trying to throw him under the bus.  Just trying to be fair to Spam because it sucks to be the lone person when you are discussing this sort of thing because you sincerely care, yet NObody will share their own experiences on it.