huh?

[Uncle Fester]

I'm a bit puzzled, Master.  I may have been annoying you by using the AR to defend myself against you, but a permanent ban?

[Master]

I'm a bit puzzled, Master.  I may have been annoying you by using the AR to defend myself against you, but a permanent ban?

Please play hwguy if the only weapon you know how to effectively use is the autorifle.

I told you more than once to stop playing from spawn, I can't help it that you can't handle the fact that I loathe the fact that you refuse to use the sniper rifle.. as a fucking sniper, you wouldn't have me chasing through the sniper area every 10 seconds if you would stop spamming all 4 grenades and 75 bullets in a chance to get one kill while backpedaling to spawn, this is not sniping, and it's also not tolerated as you have learned today.

[Uncle Fester]

I'm not going to argue with you; at the end of the day, it's your server, and if you don't want me in it, then I'm done.

1 1.00 1,438 65.27% 266 100.00% 0.18

2 1.10 356 16.16% 0 0.00% 0.00

3 1.20 79 3.59% 0 0.00% 0.00

[Master]

I'm not arguing your capability to get a kill, I am questioning your cowardice. Snipers are the primary reason the spawn rule was rewritten to specify that there should be no playing from respawn, it hinders movement of players entering/exiting spawn (and having a door close that enemies cannot enter is an unfair advantage, you dick) and it invites players to pelt spawns with grenades as there is an enemy there, which is against the rules. Your choice of running to the nearest respawn while throwing all your grenades and spamming AR is what lead me to continue to hunt you down as you are clearly confused about what class you want to play, while the playstyle itself is in no way against the rules, playing from spawn very much is. There used to exist a plugin on battlezone that would punish players for entering spawns too frequently, it has been almost one year without it but the fact that we are back here discussing this issue again tells me that it is needed again.

[BlasteR|TF]

From what I understand, this isn't the first person to be banned this week for using AR either.  Slippery was also banned for using AR, or so I was told, and doesn't plan to come back.

Slip played on BZ like every day.

IMO, if the rules are not to use AR on the server that should be clarified on the server notes when you join, at minimum, so that you don't find yourself banned for doing something you see in just about every round of TFC on BZ and elsewhere.

Just my 2cents - whatever that's worth.

Getting kills with AR - especially from a distance - is a lame tactic.  Not arguing with that one.  But at least clarify it for the server regulars so we don't all end up getting banned in this fashion.

Sounds like BZ has already lost 2 server regulars due to lame AR kills (at least 2 that I know of).

-BlasteR

[Master]

This person was not banned for using AR, its the playstyle of not leaving spawn and expecting their spawn area to be used as protection from a threat they refuse to engage in close-combat that lead to the ban. There are rules against playing from spawn so that there are no reason for people to spawn camp, just because I am capable to bhop around your base before your sniper decides to leave spawn does not mean your offensive scout should be met with a grenade to the face because of another players cowardice, nobody is happy in this situation, especially the server owner. STOP PLAYING FROM SPAWN.  IT'S AGAINST THE RULES AND IMPEDES GAMEPLAY

This is a very specific shoutout to sniper players as this is 100% the target audience for the spawncamping rule to include playing from one's own spawn, you should not be relying on this to defend you, it is there for you to regain health/armor/ammo, not to protect you from assailants, regardless of distance. If you CAN run away to respawn before the enemy gets to you, this is that gray area that gets hotly debated every now and then for almost two decades now, the issue that lead to the ban is when the sniper decides to pussyfoot around, charging their dot well before exiting the spawn door, or alternatively what I saw SEVERAL TIMES was a sniper waiting still inside the door keeping the door open, this is not allowed,as it OPENLY welcomes players to spam spawns.

I have already said it once, I will be reimplementing some old measures and some new ones to make sure it is abundantly clear that you are not allowed to play from respawns.

[Guts]

He's not arguing the AR specifically, he's telling uncle the tactics involved while he was using the AR, are against the rules. The AR is just adding icing to the cake.

I can't stand when snipers are in spawn doors inching their way out while charging a rifle or even worse going backwards back into spawn from the exit door. All because someone is targeting them and they are afraid to die. I'm not saying every sniper does it, most good snipers play the complete opposite in fact. Just that it's almost universally snipers that do this and it causes a multitude of other problems as master explained.

EDIT: Looks like master beat me to the punch. Maybe we can make the turret shoot friendly players if they camp inside the spawn...and by we I mean master and by friendly players camping I mean anytime it sees a sniper.

[BlasteR|TF]

Sry I thought Uncle and Slippery were 2 diff players.  LOL!

[Bishop]

There are many regulars (not mention countless unknown noobs) that play from spawn to at least some extent.  I'm not defending specific behavior in this case, but since this is very common I'd hate to lose a regular just to highlight this growing problem.

So while a player sitting in the doorway with rifle charged may see admin action...playing-from-spawn is grey space ...many players play near spawn and resupply after every encounter.  While this style of play is common I don't believe it deserves admin action.  In fact, our server rank/plugins actually encourage/reward players to play near spawn and resupply when damaged. 

But feat not! We can resolve spawn related problems with some simple changes (it's just hard to get agreement so chime in if you agree or have other ideas). 

Here are my suggestions.
- Remove EVIL Bags as this encourages spawn hugging (2 sec refill, never consumed, too many nades, +heals infections)
- Remove our rule protection from people leaving spawn.  Those leaving spawn already have a huge advantage with full health/ammo/nades + turrets + close-resupply. I don't buy killing anyone leaving spawn is cheap. Why give additional protection and reason to stay near spawn?    As an aside, most admin action is to enforcing this rule - which is not only unnecessary but us admins can't agree to enforce the rules now as written.
- In Ranks...reward team wins/loses, defending the objective, killing the flag-carrier, and touching/capturing the objective...Rank is TFC is not about kills/deaths.  It makes no sense to reward kills/deaths as this correlates more to spawn-hugging than to skill; yet this is another reason some play from spawn.
- Turn on Friendly Fire or possibly Mirror Damage.  This will reduce the ridiculous nade spam that frustrates most us (which is exacerbated by the abundance of nades from the EVIL bag). Turn on auto-ban for too many ff-kills.

[Guts]

I agree with mostly everything Bishop stated except the Evil nade bag. While it can cause other issues it solves one major one, and that's people who purposely infect. I play in every other server and besides the pickup severs its a constant problem which seems to always happen when an admin is not around. I went to drippys earlier tonight which is rare for me nowadays and I wasnt in there for 2 minutes and sniper who was infected was sitting in the sniper spawn hallway blocking the exit and i was able to juke by, only for him run after me and tag me as I got to the door. He then proceeded to go back into the spawn for the next guy.

Bishop I feel your pain as someone who does play O quiet frequently myself, but this is a pub and when an admin is not around and you have people infecting on purpose it ruins the game. I would say keep the Evil bag and let it cure infections but put the health on a 30 second timer.

[Gimpy]

I use admin actions against snipers who play from spawn, or sit in the spawn door, including those who charge their rifle in spawn.

Here's the cool thing about snipers... when you engage your target, and they kill you, the game magically teleports you back to the spawn anyways.

[Nuggs]

Here's the cool thing about snipers... when you engage your target, and they kill you, the game magically teleports you back to the spawn anyways.

This is what kills me most about spawn junkies and stat whores. It's actually FASTER to fight to the death and respawn with full health as opposed to running all the way back to spawn.

Bag whoring is another subject all together and limited mostly to attack defend maps. Most would agree is a valid strategy, although I can see why it would be frustrating to noobs.

For the love of god, don't even speak about enabling mirror damage or TK. All that leads to is trolling.